Between Creators
BETWEEN CREATORS strips away the persona. Eight episodes, sixteen of the biggest names in creator culture (paired one-on-one, no host, no script) talking the way they never get to on camera. Not an interview. A conversation between two people who've lived the same impossible fame, the same industry, the same scrutiny, and finally have someone across from them who actually gets it.
Between Creators
Episode 5 - Jada Stevens & Phoenix Marie
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Jada Stevens and Phoenix Marie have watched the entire world of entertainment and social media changes around them and have stayed close friends through it all. In this episode they trace it back to the beginning: a chance connection early in their careers and a hard moment that cemented the friendship for good. They get into the eras each of them built a name inside of, what makes a star.
Remember when the guy was like, oh, is that is that you? Is that actually you?
SPEAKER_01We were looking for ones of us together and the guy's just looking at us, looking at our DVD covers, going, wait, huh? So how do we meet?
SPEAKER_00How did we meet?
SPEAKER_01I remember the first time being really a great conversation was we were on our way to go sign into Exotica in Miami.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01It was really deep. Yeah. Did you feel like you were finding yourself when you first got in?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. I was still a baby. I was like, How old were you when you got in? 18 when I got in. But I think by the time I met you, I was like 19, 20-ish or something like that.
SPEAKER_01I remember you had blonde hair at one point.
SPEAKER_00Blonde weave is what you should say.
SPEAKER_01I didn't know it was weave, so I'm just throwing it out there. How did you not? I remember short.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well I was talking about like the ATL blonde weave, the most terrible by the way. But that was the first memory I was thinking of your own.
SPEAKER_01What brought you into the industry?
SPEAKER_00I was a dancer first in Atlanta.
SPEAKER_01Did you start right at 18 stripping?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the day I turned 18.
SPEAKER_01You're like, oh man, I'm going.
SPEAKER_00I went like when uh the day before and he was like, just sit down and see if this something you could do. So I sit down and I was like, oh my god, I could do this. I was more rebellious. So people really weren't into that. Like that wasn't accepted. Like it wasn't accepted to be a dancer or yeah, and at that whole time. So I just think that it gave me a dopamine spike and I was like, I'm gonna do it.
SPEAKER_01So then why how did you go from that to adult?
SPEAKER_00Um ended up meeting somebody a few years later that took me to South Florida to with an agency. It was like alternative modeling. That's how far long ago that was. Um but I went down there and they're like, oh, um, this website's about to have their first like internet website and it turned out to be Bang Bros. So Asp Parade was like, I was like gonna go down there. I was like, nobody's gonna know. Nobody's gonna know. And then right that launched, and I'm like telling you everybody in my hometown was like, oh my god, did you see this?
SPEAKER_01Did you see this? So well I feel like once you knew you were you, it just blew up. Like I couldn't not see you. It was like, and you know, Jaden James and me were really good friends, and then Jaden was kind of like leaving, and then me and you just connected on the bang bus, and I was just like, I want to know everything about you. My biggest core memory of me being like, I love her, was uh your mom passing. I got a phone call from an ex and he said, Hey, your girl had something really traumatic happen.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's actually I feel like what brought us together too in the beginning, but I definitely that was a hard moment and you were there for me and you'll remember those things forever, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's like who's there for me? Who loves me who really like people?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, people anybody can say my condolences or whatever. No, what was your life like at the time when we met?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I had a little one, right? She was 10. I'm hiding that. No one knew I had a daughter. I went from that to dealing with the ex that we all know in the industry. We're not gonna talk about it, guys. But no, it's fine. It was Christian Triple X and it just didn't work out, but it was really hard because the industry went from, okay, here's the internet. PhoenixMurney.com had just started for me. And it was, you know, really trying to figure out where we are today with the OF platforms and all the bigger platforms that we're hosting now us to be able to make money, right? Right. And I by that point I had already been the most shot girl on all the sites. And it was just growing, and I went, oh my god, because I was never pretty, right? No one ever consider me pretty, which I don't give a F. They were like, you had Tori Lane told me, you can either be pretty or dirty, you can't be both.
SPEAKER_00It's true though. That's a true statement. But you're pretty and dirty. But I feel like I've gotten prettier as I've gotten older. So I didn't really feel like that in the beginning. You know what I mean? I that's how I feel. Like I feel like either it's like ugly duckling syndrome.
SPEAKER_01And now we're like, hey, listen.
SPEAKER_00But it either goes either way. You're really pretty in high school. Yeah, and not so much when you get older.
SPEAKER_01So I mean I wasn't when I got in either, but I think that's part of why people liked me and I just kept going and I kept building and you know, fans were just like, I like your crooked teeth. I like that you have cellulite. And I'm like, you like these little things about me? Like, okay, like I'll never do anything to like change it. But I think honestly, I got in and I was so terrified because I thought a cream pie was clown born and that I was gonna get hit in the face with like a pie. I'm like, oh boy girl, yeah, I'll do that. And then I look over at the Asian assistant at the time, I'm like, Chris, and he goes, Well, what's I R? Because I'm like in real life, like what are we talking about? And he's like, Do you like black eyes? I was like, yeah, and he goes, click the box. I'm like, okay, click the box.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I've just always liked black eyes. I've never known it had a category or something called something. Anything from that studio era that you that was fun and you kind of miss?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I mean, I really did love the gonzo sets. I too.
SPEAKER_00That's that's me totally 100%. You know that.
SPEAKER_01But the feature sets are fun too. Like, but I I was never a part of that like meaning long feature day. Yeah. No, but it's not it's not for me.
SPEAKER_00I'm a gonzo.
SPEAKER_01You want to your gonzo?
SPEAKER_00I miss actually like gonzo. I feel like there still is gonzo, but it's not like highlighted like those that era. You know, this is a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01What about it did you like more than doing feature days?
SPEAKER_00Because I personally think that like if I were to watch porn, I would want to watch like genuine sex, not a whole bunch of like yapping and acting and whatnot. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01So you're the one that I skip I do all the sexual. You're fired. That makes me think of our so I was also reminiscing obviously before I sat down of so one of our bigger like bonding moments is we were hosting at a gentleman's club. New York. Yep, and the next day somebody decided to have extracurricular activities and make me miss my flight. Oh, I made you miss your flight. It wasn't you, it was somebody else. You were innocent. You were you were doing your own thing, and I was like, I'm stuck in New York, it's right before Christmas. I don't know where to go. And you're like, Yeah, and we had a New York night. Yeah. Yeah. And we went to remember we went to the adult stores and found our old DVDs.
SPEAKER_00That's crazy though. The DVD era is like non-existent. Like we used to actually go to stores and be like, look at the magazines or look at the DVDs of us on there. Remember when the guy was like, oh, is that is that you? Is that actually you?
SPEAKER_01Remember like we were looking for ones of us together in there, right? So then we went in as a joke for one of our mutual friends, and we decided that because he can't have sex with both of us, we were gonna get him this DVD as both of us in it. And we were going through and then the guys, the raincoat guys, right? I guess that's the term for them, were walking in staring at me and you, because I had some makeup on, platinum hair, you were you. And the guys just looking at us, looking at our DVD covers, going, wait, huh? Whenever we went to cash out and the guys staring at it, I think we signed one for the store.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we could keep it.
SPEAKER_01It was so cute. Do you think regular people are intimidated by us?
SPEAKER_00Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_01What do you think is the most intimidating thing?
SPEAKER_00And that we're unapologetically us with makeup, without makeup, in sweats and dresses, whatever. We are who we are.
SPEAKER_01Wow, we are the person that you want. That energy is like felt everywhere. Do you think it's a sexual energy that we like lead off with?
SPEAKER_00No, I mean it can be, but I think it's just an aura in general. Like it's what we exude and it's not next necessarily like always sexual. What's your process from you to get an amazing scene?
SPEAKER_01I really think it's about who they paired us with. Is there anything in particular you think you excel at when you do scenes that no one else does like you? Besides being you, obviously.
SPEAKER_00I would I'm not gonna say now. Everybody's doing things now. Then I feel like, you know, the whole small waist, big butt, white girl, that was my thing for a long time. And it it there wasn't a lot of people doing it like that, you know, with the same curves and whatnot to it.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, no one looks like you. I want a brunette, I want her to have a big ass, I want to have big boobs. You know, every site was very specific for us. Aspirate, huge one. Like, oh okay, you have curves and you got a butt, like come do this one, you know.
SPEAKER_00Like big wet butts.
SPEAKER_01What do you think was your favorite site?
SPEAKER_00My favorite site? I always liked the oil sites. I liked all the oil days because I didn't have to worry about it. Because you got real hair. I didn't yeah, and I didn't have to worry about anything looking crazy because you look crazy. Let's do the whole thing.
SPEAKER_01Crazy scenes, because you and I both know that there's some, you know, we've done things that also I feel the trend of the hardcore scenes that we did aren't the same anymore.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01I don't even see them anymore.
SPEAKER_00It's still like the battle of the content creators and the porn star things now. In what way? As far as just like how the performances, like yeah, they there's girls that can do content and do these scenes, but it never was like in the star, like a mainstream aspect. So I just think it it's different. They could be filming POV or whatever the case is. It's like it's so easy to do that, but to be in a room full of cameras and PAs and just the energy is different, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Do you think the talent is different as far as the males as well because of that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know me. I think the era of the porn star is over, but a new generation has been birthed.
SPEAKER_01So is it like a sustainable or is it that we're recycling girls at a a faster rate? Because back in the day when I came to set, Derek Pierce looked at me and said, What's your name? Cool, if you're here in six months, I'll try to remember it. And I went, what? Like who says that? But also, I mean, it was a very blunt era. The male talent really dictated who was popular. I I do remember like if I have sex with you, I'll remember your name. And that's a really messed up thing to say, but unless you've made an impact on me, yeah, and even if you want to have had sex with people and I still don't remember their name.
SPEAKER_00That's horrible. Because it wasn't a strong enough impact. That's not bad on me, but I'm horrible with names. I'll remember faces.
SPEAKER_01I feel since I have the tenure usually, I mean, I don't no one else has been doing it as long as I have consistently, which is freaking crazy. I need to be the person that can be the shadow and not be the star. You know, like it's not my job to be the star of the show. It's like, okay, you have me with the new girl and uh 200 scene guy. Like he's not gonna be able to handle me. She doesn't know what she's doing. Let's manage and then like put the energy where we need to.
SPEAKER_00Do you like that better than being the star?
SPEAKER_01Sometimes. Sometimes I do. Sometimes it's like, oh, I get to just be like, I get to play my role, and I feel like that's my role now is to bring people up because no one really takes that time anymore, especially in this era. It's a lot of look at me, look at me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And even some of the veterans that are around don't want to help the new girl.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So what was the shift from you going to performer to creator?
SPEAKER_01I think our studios stopped shooting as much. And there was that like COVID break that allowed us the freedom to go, well, we all need to still monetize what we're amazing at, right? So we all started really allowing the fans to be more direct with us, right? It was like, okay, you guys want to buy it directly from me, then let me do this.
SPEAKER_00I feel like the OnlyFans era is like more intimate than the actual like mainstream.
SPEAKER_01What do you think to you is the difference between a good performer and an amazing performer?
SPEAKER_00I think a good performer is somebody that can come and get the job done, but an amazing performer is somebody that just comes and kind of lets loose and takes it there.
SPEAKER_01So they enjoy it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They want to be there.
SPEAKER_00They want to be there. What about you? What do you think is the difference between a good performer and an amazing performer?
SPEAKER_01Somebody who does not care if they get a paycheck.
SPEAKER_00At the end where they look and go a whole nother level. I've been there. Oh yeah, no, no. I can't say I have, but no.
SPEAKER_01I'm not mad at that. But like for me, I look and go, you know, you're at that point where it is such a great scene. The chemistry is just on point. The emotions, you're crying, you're laughing, you're coming. The the heightened intensity is just so palpable for everybody that they're like, this is amazing. I don't have to get paid to have sex with my best friend. I'm gonna be honest. I don't. I'd have sex with you, it's fine. I'm just gonna throw it out there. Anyone watch?
SPEAKER_00That's what makes you an amazing performance.
SPEAKER_01No, but I I also feel like that's part of us is like our brand show that we can bring amazing performances. So it's different. What's your most memorable scene?
SPEAKER_00It was one of the first and it was big. So like a a specific picture was made into a gif and it still gets brought to the booth to this day.
SPEAKER_01So what was your first scene? Because I don't think I've ever asked that question to you.
SPEAKER_00My first scene is for Bang Bros. It was wax on, wax off. It was their first as parade that they dropped. It was a three-day thing. That's how you know how long ago that was.
SPEAKER_01So mine was Bright New Face's number two, right? Vivid. And I didn't even know how to position. And I remember them saying, Okay, so you're gonna look back and put your arm kind of like a chicken. And I brought my arm forward and I looked back like a weirdo. Like a chicken. Puts on the box cover because Bisco, go fuck yourself. Yeah. But like it was the first time I ever saw a huge dick. Like I had never been around a large penis and it was a huge penis. But it for me, it was just like I didn't know anything and that innocence is I didn't know how to do a blowjob. I didn't know anything sexually.
SPEAKER_00I knew things sexually, not to the extent that I know now, but I did know what, but I was like mortified. I was so shy and so nervous and I was the only girl, we all had big asses, but I was the only girl that knew how to shake it. So they relied on me. You're still the same one in this one, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_01What scenes do you feel like you remember that the fans talked to you the most about?
SPEAKER_00What I did for the BBC community and like you represent what I really did. It was an era, I'm not gonna say I'm the first, but I still was the staple. So that's the difference, you know.
SPEAKER_01And then there was the shy Jada era.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, I'm still shy.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm there was baby Jada era. Okay, baby Jada. Yes, okay.
SPEAKER_00It was definitely very much lack of confidence in that part, being on camera, I should say. Not lacking confidence as a person, but just in something new. Yeah, you know?
SPEAKER_01So do you feel a sense of power knowing how many people watch you and enjoy what you do?
SPEAKER_00I could say no, but I but I do. And I definitely think so I think it liberates me for sure to know that and just kind of gives you a confidence boost for sure.
SPEAKER_01Is it because it sets you aside from everybody else? You're like, look at my views. Do you look at that stuff?
SPEAKER_00No, I don't look at views and numbers and all that. I really don't like maybe back and we really didn't have that that screen to look at that, but I really don't. I think as far as confidence, it just makes me feel like I'm that bitch, you know?
SPEAKER_01For you, you actually it's one of my favorite like accomplishments that you ever did was your own production company. And a lot of people don't realize you did your own production company. Yeah, well.
SPEAKER_00As much as I don't care to be in front of a camera, to go from that to directing, I want to show you how to do it. That's what I'm doing. Let me show you how to do it.
SPEAKER_01And then you can't always like get on and show them how to do it, you know? I just feel like for me, I would be on set every single day if I could be. Yeah, because and and that's like But that's always been me. It's just like I want to go, I want to do this. Like I love public sex. Do you like public sex?
SPEAKER_00I do now.
SPEAKER_01Did you like that kink stuff?
SPEAKER_00Uh I I'm very like light with with um BDSM or whatever. I'm not really like hardcore like you are, you know.
SPEAKER_01Like you are. Listen, your favorite clip of me ever is still me squishing a watermelon between my thighs. I love it.
SPEAKER_00I have it on my phone.
SPEAKER_01That I feel like that became like such a niche too, is like, how crazy can you be on set?
SPEAKER_00Isn't it rebellious to go from a financial advisor to a big porn star?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean to go from Harley Davidson finance manager to Phoenix Marie is like, I guess for a lot of people rebellious. But I I was it with Harley, so I mean my boobs were basically out of my corset on the back or when I was riding my own bikes, like I feel I always had a streak in me to do adventurous things.
SPEAKER_00So more like spontaneous than rebellious. Yeah, yeah. It's like, okay. So when you're doing an amazing scene, is it the same feeling as riding a motorcycle really fast?
SPEAKER_01Yes. It's the adrenaline, it is the wind, it's like my Hellcat, like I have that car strictly so I can go 220 miles an hour. Sex is like riding Harley, driving my Hellcat, my GTR, like my Mustang, all of it. Do you think that people are drawn to adult stars because we do have the freedom to do whatever the fuck we want?
SPEAKER_00Sex in general and exuding that, I think that that's like captivating for them. I think that's why.
SPEAKER_01I definitely think it has a lot to do with that. And I think it's why guys like when they see us look at us and go, I know who you are. You know, after how many years, like we're kind of immune to like the power we get.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But everyone else is kind of like, oh my god, it's you know, actually.
SPEAKER_00It's still a wow factor.
SPEAKER_01We're at Disneyland and you've got blue hair and dudes are stopping to take photos of you. We just ate soup bowls, like it's pretty crazy. Yeah. We have the power to do anything.
SPEAKER_00So is there a difference between Phoenix and you or is that just your alter ego?
SPEAKER_01I feel like I'm exactly the same all the time. I have to say that too about you. I know that about you.
SPEAKER_00So can you answer that question for me?
SPEAKER_01For I would say there are two different sides to you. Very much so.
SPEAKER_00And they're still both freaky.
SPEAKER_01But no, but differ. But I think you also have always moved into different eras of who you wanted to be. Like sometimes you want to be just you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then other times you're like, that's it. Jada Stevens, you're gonna know my name, you're gonna represent, and here you go.
SPEAKER_00It's definitely an alter ego for me, for sure. And I get in I can get into the alter ego and turn the switch on, but I'm definitely Candace.
SPEAKER_01So what part of human psychology do you understand better now that you've been in the industry for this long?
SPEAKER_00People don't have to say much for me. I read everything, I read the room, you know, and read the person, and I think that has took years of that too, without having to explain or say, you know.
SPEAKER_01And you need a lot of fans that I'm sure make you f read them really quick, right? If you could tell baby Jada this is who you're gonna become, and you don't have to do that, would you have still done it?
SPEAKER_00I would, you know, being the person I am, I want to say no, I wouldn't have, but I really wouldn't be sitting here right here in front of you if anything would have changed, you know.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no regrets, obviously. You can't, you know. You could be like, ugh, I'm not gonna do that again, but oh my What still gets you excited nowadays?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I'm like super big into foreplay before sex now, and I never was into that and like now I love it.
SPEAKER_01Is it because of the person?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Okay. Yeah. Do you think there's more performers now like more eager and willing, or do you think I think there's a mix.
SPEAKER_01I think there are some people who come in and want to work with us for clout and for that instant fame that they think they're getting from us. Right. And then there are some who are generally like, I I want to make this a business and I want this to be real. But it's probably more 90% wanting clout, 10% wanting to make a career out of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true. The difference is the whole clout era. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it made it sad because then it's not really about sexual freedom and being able to do like, you know, Larry Flint and Plant House and Playboys and all those bigger brands that like were brands, right? Like Vivid's gone. That was my first scene. I like crazy. I I got to be a part of these bigger brand names that are all like dissolved and being bought up by these monopolies, and they're not even showcasing women the way they used to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I agree.
SPEAKER_01So do you ever watch your own scenes?
SPEAKER_00I really don't. I really don't. I used to. I feel like to critique myself back in the day. After a certain amount of scenes, I stopped. I don't what about you?
SPEAKER_01You know, I've never watched any of my scenes because my life, I never watched a scene because the first scene I ever went to watch back in the day, like the comments were like such a big thing. Yeah. And somebody was like, look at her tiger stripes, look at her like crooked teeth, like, and it was just these derogatory comments, and I went, you know, I'm being booked a lot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I don't want to read these things before I even get to click that. Yeah. And so I decided I'll never read another comment and I'll never watch one of my scenes. But do you watch porn? That's a bigger question. I do, but I watch hentai. I watch the cartoon. Oh, okay. Well think about it. We've had sex with everyone that's pretty much on there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So what was a nice thing that a fan said to you that's something that stuck with you?
SPEAKER_01You know, I had a woman who emailed me because it's that long ago. She said, I have ovarian and breast cancer and I can't have sex with my husband. And I walked into an adult store and one of your movies was playing. And I said, the only way you're gonna watch porn is if it's who I pick kind of vibes, right? But she couldn't do it, right? Physically, she's going through chemo and everything else. And two years later, she actually came to AVN and goes, I don't know if you know me, but I had cancer and I started bawling and I was like, oh my God. And I like, and she's like, you are saving marriages. And that's why I came up with saving marriages once week. Yep. Because it was like, to me, that meant so much because it does prove a point that our industry changes people's lives.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. How do you feel when you meet celebrities or athletes and they know all of your work?
SPEAKER_01Well, I tend to date them. It's not a lie. Not celebrities so much for this athletes. Uh I got a problem. Um it is flattering, but it they never really last because a lot of them get so addicted to that on-screen persona, and whenever they have to deal with the real life me, it's kind of like, uh, yeah, I really like to watch you, but I I'm not okay with you having sex with other people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's the story of my life.
SPEAKER_01Well, okay, how do you feel about celebrities and athletes?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it used to flatter me. I'm kind of like desensitized to it now, but I think it it in the beginning I was like, this is surreal, this is crazy.
SPEAKER_01Did you like the fact that these famous people to other people were like huge fans of yours?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Or that they even knew, you know, like that was a thing where like you didn't realize how many people actually watch porn until those moments, you know.
SPEAKER_01You're like, wait, you watch me. What? I watched you on TV and like you're a rapper and you're XYZ.
SPEAKER_00I like grew up listening to some of the music or whatever, you know what I mean? So it was surreal.
SPEAKER_01So because you've watched a lot of their work and they've watched a lot of your work, do you think it's like similar jobs or how do you feel about it?
SPEAKER_00I've always thought it was similar in an effect of like musicians and porn kind of go together. So you know what I mean? Like I've always seen fighters. Yeah, I just thought it always went together. And we kind of do do similar things, like performance-wise, everything's performative for the most part.
SPEAKER_01We're sex leads. And when I look at like some of the football players I have dated and like other pro athletes, like they do extreme things with their bodies, and so do we. Yeah. And they have to condition themselves together. It is like an athlete. We are like athletes. When was that moment when you realized, damn, I'm really good at this, and I am Jada fucking Stevens?
SPEAKER_00I just think because I had like all the directors talking about booking me and like how great of a performer or I was up and coming or whatever, and I think that that was like, damn, like from directors that were a big deal.
SPEAKER_01What do you still look forward to creatively, like with content or going forward?
SPEAKER_00I think just really shooting stuff that I want to shoot and stuff that showcases like stuff that I like. I think that's big now because I did for so long what everybody else liked and what everybody else wanted to see and I just like shooting what I like.
SPEAKER_01You can be more intimate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Really, right? And what about you? What still excites you and what do you like shooting in your content?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I made a movie, so that's coming out this year. It is actually like a concept I came up with and I wanted it to be a feature, so I put people through the long days.
SPEAKER_00She didn't put me in it.
SPEAKER_01First of all, first of all, don't even start you like I am not shooting, so don't go there. But it was also like not for us. Yeah. How do you feel about the loss, the art of like even the performance aspect of, you know, the small pool of the hair, the grabbing of the chin, the kissing that, like you said, the intimacy you want to showcase.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um it's a lost art for sure. I think there was a lot of um standards and expectations when we got in. It had to be a certain way, and I feel like they've kind of gotten away from that.
SPEAKER_01Like, think about it, no one teases anymore. No one, you know, does it that was my favorite part.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01And that's gone. Like girls now are doing it for views on Instagram. We knew the art of putting on a nylon from the toes and all the foot guys looking at that.
SPEAKER_00Undressing, the rolling down of the bikini, whatever. Even just sliding that bra strap off and like kissing a shoulder. Like, what about on the male side of it? Do you think the male talent has a lot has a lost art?
SPEAKER_01I feel the male talent isn't up to the same standards as 20 years ago, and a lot of it has to do with a lot of the rectile things that they now use as helpers, right? So they don't have to be into the girls. So a lot of men have found like these coverage at tri-mixes where now I'm gonna inject, I'm gonna swallow these pills where back in the day a guy would maybe take a bite of a Viagra just to make sure. But he wanted to be there. Why do you think it changed?
SPEAKER_00That I don't know. I still like I I don't like to like blame everything on the shift of the content creating, but I just feel like it you didn't need I feel like that was a big part of it though. Like the you didn't need like the mainstream productions to make porn and now like everybody's just seen oh how easy, oh I can just shoot it. So and it's not needed to do all that. So I think that's why it's kind of lost touch of having that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I get out. I'm like, wait. I was like, oof. I like that this flag.