Between Creators
BETWEEN CREATORS strips away the persona. Eight episodes, sixteen of the biggest names in creator culture (paired one-on-one, no host, no script) talking the way they never get to on camera. Not an interview. A conversation between two people who've lived the same impossible fame, the same industry, the same scrutiny, and finally have someone across from them who actually gets it.
Between Creators
Episode 6 - Chloe Amour & Natalia Starr
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Chloe Amour and Natalia Starr came up together in LA during an era of paparazzi run-ins, Saddle Ranch nights, and figuring out who they were while building very public careers. In this episode they trace how a decade-plus friendship survived it all.
Saddle Ranch, we used to just go there and ride the little thing make out. We were like the oh god. We would put on a show. Um, when I first got into industry, my sister was already in the industry. She was shooting in Florida, she did a like a couple like mediocre scenes. I remember I was still in high school, boys would be like, oh, will you do that too? Blah, blah, blah. I was like, no, I would never do porn. And then right after I graduated, I was like, eh, might as well. I'm down. I want to live in LA. I I I was living in New York, and might if like I wanted to start my life somewhere, so I would rather be in LA sunny weather. I don't want to be in old cold New York. And you had your sister too, so you had support. We moved together. We moved to Studio City. I was living in like the coolest building right next to on Lenkusim, right? Right by Vivid. Remember the the Derek.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Derek's built. No, so do the radio. I think they sold it.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, it's been sold. But back in the day, like it was like when I felt like a star getting in. I lived right there. I could have walked to the Vivid. Vivid was like such a big like thing. And I'm like, oh my agents here. I felt like a small fish in a big, big water. A lot of competition. A lot of girls were coming in and out, going out almost every weekend, being out uh in the sh in the Hollywood streets. Whenever catch. Whenever we used to get out catch. This was yeah.
SPEAKER_00We all had our like birthdays there, comp birthdays.
SPEAKER_01I got so much comp that I get so fucking blacked out drunk. I fell down those stairs coming down. Paparazzi got me, and they were like, oh Natalia, Natalia. I'm like, hey, paparazzi knows me.
SPEAKER_00Yes, living in LA, the pops definitely know who the porn stars are.
SPEAKER_01Did you ever come with me to I think we did go to the living in CDC? What was that place? Saddle Ranch? Oh my god, Saddle Ranch was crazy. We used to just go there, ride the little thing. Yeah, make out. We were like the Oh gosh. We would put on a show and it's it was like we were poly before Polly was Polly. Like we would go on dates with other like a guy and would just like make out with each other, just doing those shows.
SPEAKER_00Like girls only, yes. Cause I do recall like photos of like all of us kind of like sitting together. I don't remember exactly where we were, but we all like kiss and stuff and like it was cute. It wasn't like because that was one thing.
SPEAKER_01I didn't kick out of the restaurant sometimes. They're like, you guys are too much.
SPEAKER_00Was I there? Mentally you were not physically because I regardless of like being in the adult industry, something I definitely pride myself on even till this day is to like make sure to keep it classy. I know that during my party days I've probably had some very like wild and out nights, but I definitely like I kind of felt like if I'm gonna stay true to myself, like just because I'm doing triple X and someone asks me to pull my boobs out, like I'm not gonna just do that. Damn it. That would be I am more wild than me. I'm gonna do this hard though. Like I just like being naked normally, like I like to be naked like when I'm swimming in the pool. But not like in the lake. I need like coverage anyways. At the beginning of my career, so I did Playboy under a different name. And then that's how the agency, my first agency found out about me, recruited me. I figured I'm already naked on the internet. What's the big deal of having sex on camera? Like I literally like thought that as like very free-spirited, promiscuous, but still reserved because of my background, you know, because Texas is very conservative and that's where I'm from. But I weren't hiding it. Right. I wasn't. Some girls hide it. Very rebellious. My parents knew and I made sure to tell them before I was gonna start, you know. I just wanted like full transparency. But if we go back, like obviously I was super excited, you know. Um, I was in a serious relationship at the time. So when I first got the offer from my first agency, like, of course that caused some issue with the person I was dating. But um, there's a double standard where I come from where like they're allowed to sleep with whoever they want, however many people they want, and then like you kind of have to wait around and decide like if they're gonna choose you as their girlfriend. And a lot of guys didn't like how rebellious I was because I slept with best friends, cousins, brothers, like I didn't care. And then I was like, wait, okay, so you're telling me like I can get paid to have good sex and they're gonna do my makeup and all this stuff. Some of them make friends for me. Make you ugly on purpose. Bitch, if I see my eyebrows on the DVD cover before my face, like that's awful makeup. Like if it looks orange under my eyes, like they would do over every contour.
SPEAKER_01Like we're we already have these features where we don't need to draw them on. Shaded and jolly. Well, back in the day in 2014, it was a completely different type time. I didn't really have a choice to start with girl girl because they I did a boy girl contract. It was a worse scene too. Like it wasn't that I'm like, this is what I'm I'm getting myself into. It was with uh with like the um older gentleman, veneers. But like him for my first scene, but he had a great body and I was like in a cheerleader's outfit. It was very, very corny porn set. And it was like a bunch of other people, they had extras and everything. So I was like, I must do a good job. I must do a good job. And I was like, shit. Everyone's staring at you. Yeah, like this is the time to shine. I was so nervous, my hands were clammy and soft, and like I wasn't really into the guy. Sometimes that happens. You're like not really, that's not your time. And you gotta do what you gotta do. And then that scene never got released till like three years later. I was waiting for it and waiting for it and waiting for it, and it hasn't came it like released after the contract was already done. Cause I already I did like a one one-year exclusive contract with them. I was uh contracted to be a twisted street of the month. And I was crying at the end of the year when I didn't get chosen for the vixen year. I mean the year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh for the twisty street of the year. I was literally crying.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, oh, Nicole Anderson, why? You're so hot. Somebody told me, I don't remember who it was, but somebody said something, and they were a person that had already been in the business over a decade, right? So I believed in what they said. Was like, hey, listen, like don't even let the getting an award, winning, not winning, like get in your head because if you're working all the time, then obviously like you're a good performer, like you deserve to be here.
SPEAKER_01I know for a fact that I'm the best for myself and I don't need an award to give me that validation.
SPEAKER_00So there was a point in time where I kind of just stopped stressing about that, you know, didn't allow that to like get in my head. But now when I came back, I was like, I wanted to have nominations and recognition because I was also starting to do more, even more hardcore and extreme scenes. And I wanted the respects, the recognition from my community or just the acknowledgement, right? And so um I'm not gonna be in the business forever. And so, in a sense, it's kind of like making history for me, right? I don't want to just be someone who's like only my community is like, oh yeah, I remember Chloe more. Like I want like the fucking world to be like, oh porn stars can do anything.
SPEAKER_01I feel like in 2015 that was just a a lot everyone was a bit more passionate. I know a lot of girls who would work twice because they would uh I did. Yeah, they would get you so many scenes and you're like, oh my god. It would be painful. Like my body was like not catching up with it. It would I I never even had like you were saying, like I I would I had sex before, but it was not a lot. Like my first time ever being with a woman was on a Twisty Street set with Bat Rossi. I'm like, this is the best of the holy shit, I got the best I can grow ever to get my first take my virginity. When was the first time like a major celebrity said they love your work?
SPEAKER_00Gosh. Oh, I don't remember the first time, but they definitely know how to slide into DMs. It's funny to me because I'm like, you're like I'm your celebrity in the movies and stuff, and then you're telling me about all these scenes that I've done, and I've hung out with some of them in person and things like that. I'm never really like a cloud chaser or anything, so I don't really like care about that. It's just like a nice compliment. Moving on. It's been anywhere from actors, comedians, musicians, rappers, uh artists, even producers. They're like in love with this fantasy, the idea of Chloe O'Mar. They don't really know me, and so it's just like they see you as an object as the final form.
SPEAKER_01They don't know you as a human. I've like I used to hang out with this director, he's super huge. And I know we're not allowed to say names. You know who he is. Probably. And it's just, it's just it feels like like wow, you're you like me, you like my porn, you like my videos. There's so many girls who like, you know, there's so many content out there, and you find mine. What about you? Well, what's interesting about me and my fans, my fans are really dedicated, they really, really, really, really love me. And they will do anything for me. Like, I meet them all the time and they tell me how much like it changes their life, how much they're really appreciated, because they would never be with a woman, like, like even in their imagination, they never would even be seeing such a beautiful woman doing these things. And I used they used to tell me, oh, you're too pretty for porn, you're too gorgeous. I'm like, what do you want ugly girls to do it? First of all, you want the most prettiest girls to do it. And I'm like, why would you wanna why would you wanna degrade that?
SPEAKER_00By the way, do you watch your own scenes? Okay, I was suspecting it.
SPEAKER_01I do, but on mute. I can't, like my voice is um, it's still a little thing. I'm still learning how to like my my my my voice and my throat chakra. I've been working on it, how to have more self-love about my voice. But like I would always be cringing about my voice, like I sound like that. But I was like, oh damn, this is a good scene. Let me let me DJ real quick.
SPEAKER_00Um I don't think I've ever watched any of my scenes from start to finish. Oh yeah, me neither. I've seen bits and pieces. Majority is from fans sending me things. Since after my break, now that I've come back, it's more about like right because we produce our own content, so you have to edit it now. Yeah, you have to edit, and then if it was done for a production company, then I kind of look at it a little bit like, you know, what would I want to change? How can I make this better? How did you get better at performing? Ironically, I would get more nervous doing my photo sets than actual video.
SPEAKER_01Once the clothes come up, I'm like Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh, you know, uh back in the day I was being assigned with like veterans in the business. So I'm we're seeing five guys too. With these male talent who've been in the business for like over a decade or decade. So I'm just telling them, put me where you need me, throw me where you need me, whatever the case may be. So you were more submissive. Yes. And then also um if it were say like girl, girl, I'm working with girls it it makes such a m more easier day to work with girls that actually like girls. Like the worst thing is like if you're assigned with a girl and then she says she's not into girls.
SPEAKER_01She's like dodging you.
SPEAKER_00And I'm like, why are you here? Moving her. I have told people in the business before my break and even me coming back that like if you're starting to feel like you don't want to go to set, then you probably need a break. Because it's very easy to like get burnt out. But I've also done a lot of first on camera, so I just was not afraid to practice that on camera. And then if they're willing to critique me, then I'm able to learn things about myself. I'm I'm more liberated. I learn what I like, what I don't like, you know, what I'm okay with, what I'm not okay with, your kinks, who I perform better with, who is just like okay, you know. And um, you know, just kind of seeing like the who's still here and who's kind of gone and then who's come back and what grandfather did. Yeah. What about you? How did you get better at performing?
SPEAKER_01Well, I started really young at 19 and I didn't really know my body at that time. I didn't really know what turned me on, what what I liked, who I liked. I just knew that I wanted to look hot and just show up and like be the hottest thing on onset. So I would always just be a little spiky, spunky, um, try to have a cue. And I actually always want my partner to actually like the scene partner to have a good time. And I like I want to have a genuine connection with them.
SPEAKER_00Like I like being the only girl and getting all the attention and like I love looking at the camera, you know. I learned that like POV is really a specialty. I learned how to dirty talk because I never talked at home during sex.
SPEAKER_01Now I'm all like, yeah, harder. Oh like I'm learning I'm yeah, I dirty talk like crazy. I really know my body, so I know where you I want you to kiss me. Like, how do you get me to turn get turned on? I want you I don't want to just straight up go for blow job right away. I want you to Little foreplay. Yeah, foreplay. Sensual. Yeah, give me give me some time for us to get to know each other. I don't wanna just come in with a stranger and just go straight into the deed.
SPEAKER_00How do you feel about the transition from performing only to now performing and also creating your own content?
SPEAKER_01It's like before when we were just show up on set, it would be like a five, six hour gig. Now we work 24-7. You know, like like both 12 hours for it stopped and we got to go home and just chill and be ourselves. But now it's just we have to be, I have to be Natalia Star 24-7. There's no break. Um, do you remember when we used to do the Snapchat all the time? Private snap, yes. It was just like in your face, you're always having you have to be this narcissistic version of yourself. You're like, I have to be this hot version, but you're not always that. So it's like it really, that's why I had my break, because I was just like, I was always on. But now I just realize that they don't care if I don't have any makeup on. I'm gonna still post my videos and if I need to post it, I still post like raw with my my natural self.
SPEAKER_00Social media has never come natural to me because I've always just been a very private person. So you know how you're talking about like you said narcissist, but I yeah, like I'm not conceited or into vanity where I want the phone in front of my face all the time. Um so coming back, I had to adjust a little bit because I realized how much of an important marketing tool the social media is. And also because of where the industry has gone, they look at the social media. So regardless of how much talent you and I may have and experience and history and all those things, now we're comete competing with creators who have a really good social media game. Why don't you think social media comes natural to you? Because I like living in the moment. I like being present. I don't want to be staring at my phone all the time, taking pictures of myself all the time, taking pictures and videos of everything that's going on. Like it almost feels like as soon as I wake up, I need to grab the phone, be like, hi, good morning. Hi, I'm brushing my teeth, hi, I'm brushing my hair, hi, look at me, look at me, look at me. It's like so opposite from the actual real person that I am. So since I have come back from this hiatus, I have tried to figure out a balance, a happy medium that works for me where I can still engage with my fans through social media while also still staying true to myself and I've learned a lot because I've learned how I want to expand my brand even even further. And social media is a huge part of that. Did it come natural for you?
SPEAKER_01I was hella addicted to my phone at one point and it was my life, and I'm like, I need it with me always. And now it's I like to prepare. I like to have content badges. I like to just make sure I have a lot of different things prepared. I was never prepared. I used to be a type B person, you know. Um, I show up and I'm I'm here and I'll I'll take some content and then when I forget to post it, I'm like, oh, it's in the back of my phone somewhere.
SPEAKER_00Months and years of content that has never been posted.
SPEAKER_01So I get that. So it doesn't really come natural. I wish I'd need like someone to uh be like a social media manager. That would that would be amazing for me. But it's my personality, it doesn't really translate that well on Snapchat or like Twitter or TikTok.
SPEAKER_00Why do you think your personality doesn't translate well or why do you feel like that?
SPEAKER_01Well sometimes I feel like I'm a little too much. I'm too loud, I'm too vulgar, I'm too in your face. So it uh on But isn't that yourself? No, no, but I'm like on I'm trying to present like all like calm and I'm like and my head is just like ah I want to run around this place instead of like sit and just chill. I'm happy like I we got in early, so like I really made a lot of my followers in the beginning of Instagram days. Now it's their Instagram has so many rules, I'm just scared to post anything because I'm like, am I gonna get deleted for this? Am I gonna like is my nip slip or something's gonna happen and I'm gonna get my whole account deleted? Like I have to always think of that in the back of my head, I have to be very peachy dirteen. That's what I say. I'm like, I can't be myself. I can't be my loud uh sexual being, my like naked or like not naked, but like just more free.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. They do discriminate against SW, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01Remember when we we got picked up in that Ferrari? How many girls could it fit in the Ferrari? Well, there was three of us in one seat. Squeezed in the tiny little Ferrari, like it Who was the third person? Uh it was his wife. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Great. Hi. She's a woman. Yeah. Yeah, okay.
unknownLove her.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Love both of them.
SPEAKER_01So when I was back there, I was so disconnected. I was just choosing the pleasures in life, choosing the I didn't want any feel any bad emotions. I just wanted to feel happy and always chasing that emotion. And I didn't realize then I what it went, it put me in a down for a while. Like it made me depressed. I uh like the pendulum swang the opposite way, where I really needed to clean myself up because I was just not I wasn't feeling like myself after a while. I'm like, I'm just doing whatever everyone wants me to do. I want you want me to party, I'm gonna party. You want me to take my dress off? I'll take my dress off. I'll like be the thing you want me to be, like in your imaginations. But then I realized that wasn't who I was. So in 2020, I kind of got mixed up and I went to Bali and I stayed there for six months. I met this guy from New Zealand. He was um ayahuasca uh like uh spiritual like ceremony guy. He's like, oh, I want you to do it. He's like, don't research it, don't I'm like, okay, whatever. I was so just free spirit, I didn't even live. I was like, I didn't Google it, I didn't know what the fuck it was. We were partying the week before, which is bad because in ayahuasca you're supposed to detox and no, we were not doing that. He was not like, he was a fake spiritual list, you know. At the time I thought he was uh a genuine, but that was the where I was coming from. It really changed my outlook on and the perspective of life. It made me it went from like a small to big. I was like, oh, there's more to life. I dived straight into the deep end of spirituality. Then I had to, you know, get myself back. I started doing yoga. Then I got introduced to this beautiful teacher who I really respect them because I am a porn star, so I felt weird going to a spiritual community because a lot of people were like, I don't want to fucking be around her. She's a whore. I don't want to be around her. That's like they were like judging me because of who uh uh what I was before, but this community was never like that. They just uh took me in, open mind, open heart, and I really got into breath work. You know, I've lived a crazy life. I lived like five different lives. So I went to the party girl to the super hippie, and now I just have to kind of balance them back together. So I still party a little bit. I go to a club here and there, but like I'm not overdoing it anymore.
SPEAKER_00Well, I've known you a long time. We've both been through a lot in this industry, outside this industry in our own personal lives. So I've seen your spiritual growth, just your growth in general. And I think that's also what's helped us connect deeper is because we're both spiritual people. We both have individuality. We both have gained more clarity, we're wiser, you know, not just older, but like we know what we want. And so I'm really happy for you. Because honestly, like I see how much work you put into growing and like, you know, learning about yourself and also even how much work you put into creating and things like that, you know. The most important thing, because I almost forgot, is how we've learned to set boundaries because of a lot of things that we both experience in this business, because there's not really mentorship in this business, and we've still made it through and come back and still push it.
SPEAKER_01Hotter and better. Yeah, so my god, baby. I love you. I know I hope I hit the bell. I I always wanted to do that mean one, the guy. Oh, I hate that one. Sorry.